The Best Ergonomic Keyboard for Wrist Pain?
Logitech Ergo, Kinesis Freestyle 2, and the Kinesis Advantage 2. Which keyboard is the best for your wrists, hands, and forearms? Find out in this ergonomic keyboard review!
HELPFUL LINKS
🎥Exercises for Wrist Pain (I can’t live without): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpwsLw2jBOw
🎥Cloud Nine Ergo TKL Ergonomic Keyboard Review: https://youtu.be/Eo3L9d1taFA
👉Fix Your Hunchback with the Hunchback Fix Program: https://www.uprighthealth.com/hunchback
SUPPORT THE MISSION AND YOURSELF
👉Rebuild Your Body At Home with a DIY Program: https://uprighthealth.com/diy
💪Donate: https://www.uprighthealth.com/donate
❤️Become a Patron: https://patreon.com/uprighthealth
⚡️Become a member on YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCwj1xAY55Dd-H281T1g-bQ/join
👍Recommended gear (shoes, bands, etc.): https://uprighthealth.com/recommended-by-upright-health/
SOCIALS
➡️ Facebook: http://facebook.com/uprighthealth
➡️ Instagram: http://instagram.com/uprighthealth
🙉 Podcast: https://www.uprighthealth.com/podcasts/upright-health/
ENDING CREDITS MUSIC
David Cutter Music – http://www.davidcuttermusic.com
ABOUT THIS VIDEO
If you’re looking buy an ergonomic keyboard, this video will show you some great keyboard options. You’ll learn the advantages and disadvantages of three different ergonomic keyboards, and you’ll learn how to choose a keyboard that’ll help you with your wrist pain. This video compares the Kinesis Advantage 2, the Kinesis Freestyle 2, and the Logitech Ergo keyboards.
#keyboard #ergonomics #ergonomickeyboard #wristpain #UprightHealth
What’s your experience been with any of these keyboards? Drop me a comment!👇
I’m curious about the R-go split keyboard. It’s flat but thin. Have any of you tried it?
Have you tried the keyboards from the keychron? With that Alice layout or the split that they have? I would like to see a comparison using also that keyboards
Wrist tendonitis is ruining my life after taking a remote coding job 😢
I’m a touch typist. Used the Logitech for years. It’s all this mouse clicking we have to do these days that is causing my hand grief now.
He’s little but he’s got some BIG hands.
I usr Microsoft ergonomic keyboard but Got some pain on wrists
Can anyone help me decide? I have big boobs and I also have a lot of back pain so I am looking in to buying the split keyboad but I need the numb keypad because I am an account, does the split keyboard come with a numb pad?
Try the best ergonomic keyboard in the world if you want a challenge. Unfortunately the DataHand is no longer made.
I got into keyboards with the whole lockdown and working from home. Having the freedom of changing out the keyboard with another that I have in my office made it very easy to get used to different types and styles. I am by no means a speed freak but I was able to get used to the Advantage 2 which in my book is the most comfortable, but I game and the well shape doesn’t work well (pun intended) for that. I moved to the Ergdox EZ, It was great and the customization is a great balance of flexibility and ease of use. Then I got into diy, I built Preonic, Planck, Lily 58, even a Dactyl Manuform. In the end I picked up a Moonlander and it is my main, primarily because the software has matured since I had purchased the Ergodox EZ (same company, ZSA). But by continually changing all the time I can actually change between all these keyboards and even standard keyboards within about ten minutes. It has taken a long while to be able to do this and the best thing you can do is dedicate yourself in the beginning to a keyboard before you try switching back and forth. That was long winded but I hope it helps someone out there to know that this is completely doable. BTW: for reference I am a sysadmin by trade and I write a lot of technical docs so that is where I am coming from.
I got up to 20 wpm with the Kinesis Advantage 2 and the Dvorak layout, and I have never been a touch typist. It took me about 6 weeks. The thing that killed the experiment (aside from headaches with work creativity) were special multi-key commands—cut and paste, em dash, that sort of thing. The keys are adjacent on a normal keyboard but they were weird and uncomfortable with the Kinesis/Dvorak setup.
I’m glad I did the experiment—it was a sort of puzzle or brain teaser. I was also trying to learn a little Chinese at the time. I wasn’t able to stick with it in the end.
I’m still rather tempted to try to use the Advantage 2 with the regular Querty layout.
Button placement, reach and distance of keys are also important. If your main keys are too far apart, then it’s difficult, if they’re too close together it’s difficult.
20 minutes is much
Excelent video, thanks!!
When you’re talking about how weird a keyboard is consider that "normal"/typical QWERTY keyboards are also very weird, probably more weird from a human mechanics standpoint. You just got used to it early on.
So glad you did a presentation on this topic. Got a Logitech upright mouse this week and looovvveee it. Got rid of "mouse" shoulder.
Now considering an elevated split keyboard but it’s a big investment, so won’t be right away. I just don’t understand why they are not a more common if they are better for your posture and prevent injury.
Update: took the plunge: ordered the Dygma Raise.
You mentioned the description box for affiliate links but I don’t see any, in case you forgot!
Very good video indeed. All those points you noted are quite important. Thats why I have gone with Logitech Ergo. The other types have some great ideas but in the same time bring more issues to standard typing and usage. For example split design is superb the Freestyle 2 has but on my desk it creates a new problem: where are you going to place your mouse now? In the middle on the far side? It just creates more problems. I also prefer the minimalistic keys movement on the Ergo. There is also something very intresting on the market called DYGMA RAISE.
It took 2 weeks for me to get used to Kinesis Advantage 2. Never going back to regular ones.
I need DESPERATE help , on the freestyle 2 keyboard there is a key on the far right upper part that if u just touch it it will shut down the whole damn computer , any way to re map or completely disable this key or function ? its driving me insane
Would you NOT invest two or more weeks on training for being able to sit on deep squat? Would you reccomend people to not change their normalized but damaging habits, like avoiding excercise or eating trash food because the change is inconvenient in the short term?
IMO the problem here is you are not testing truly better keyboards, just barely tweaked versions of the design disaster we are accostumed: QWERTY. It is already tiring and bad designed to begin with. Many of the most used letters are not on the stronger fingers, letters commonly used toghether are set far from each other, the key columns are not aligned following the natural path for the fingers, lots of barely used keys are grouped on the right side wasting the extra hability of right handed people, etc…
IMO, two weeks, or even two months of re-learning for adopting a truly better tool are definitely worth it. But if the tool is still just a weird version of the same BAD DESIGN…
Sadly there aren’t many real alternatives to qwerty. The industry standard is too strong, even when it is totally wrong. I would reccomend to test somethig like the Typematrix with Dvorak layout. But it is super expensive and WILL require short term inconvenience to get used to. http://www.typematrix.com/2030/why.php
I love your videos. And I recommend them to people frequently. I give ergonomic evaluations at work. And we often recommend the Sculpt ergonomic keyboard. It looks similar to the Logitech ergo you are demonstrating, BUT the 10 key keypad is separated. Why would we want that? we want to operate the mouse closer to neutral posture taking the tension out from under the shoulder blade which the split keyboard can also achieve. Mouse time is often a torture. Typing by touch with the mousing right at neutral posture is such a help. I’m also noticing you have a pillow behind you; kudos. I’m frustrated with many of the ergonomic chairs which seems to reinforce hunch in people. Thanks for being you and sharing so much with us.
does the split keyboard have a 5 key?
The freestyle edge rgb is the only possible ergonomic keyboard that makes sense to me. I wonder if there is ectremely tall men here who use it. I have extremely long fingers, i’m a tall guy and wonder if its suitable for tall person… Concerned also about the split space position
minute 6:50 you talk about pain to thumb and backs of hand from freestyle 2. I have had same problem when using it. did you find a solution or a better split keyboard that avoids that problem?
At two and a half meters you are a giant!
I had the Kinesis Advantage 2 and used it for four months. I was also trying to learn Dvorak AND touch-typing at the same time. It was a mental exercise to try to keep my aging brain from getting sluggish. I practiced about 20-30 minutes a day and got up to 20 WPM, but I never felt completely comfortable with it. I never reached that point where my brain “clicked” and everything got automatic and flow-y.
One thing few reviewers mention is that the keys are pretty close together (this was purposeful of the part of the makers, to reduce hand and finger motion), and so,e of the keys seem to be at strange angles which makes them seem a little closer together. For someone who has big hands and is also pretty clumsy, this was something I ended up not liking about the keyboard.
I have a Kinesis Advantage Pro which I bought some 12 or 15 years ago. I have been saying for all those years that I saved myself from carpal tunnel release surgery with this keyboard. I was doing legal transcription work, and my left pinky and ring fingers would go numb. When they started going numb about an hour into my workday, I knew I was in trouble. I did research, settled on the Kinesis, and dropped over $300 on this keyboard. It took me about a week to "move into it" (it takes some doing to retrain yourself to all these thumb buttons) and another week to get back up to speed; a few more weeks and I was blowing the doors off my old typing speeds. I haven’t looked back. I actually bought a second one so I’d have one at work and one at home.
I’m here to tell you, the contoured shape of the keyboard is magical! Hold your hands in a relaxed position in the air in front of you, and see how your fingers hang at different lengths. The "bowls" of this keyboard mimic that shape, thus creating a more comfortable typing environment. The keys being lined up straight, instead of at an angle as most keyboards are, is also magical; it reduces stress on the fingers as they move to the top, bottom and number rows. Finally, taking so much typing stress off of the pinkies and putting it at the stronger thumbs promotes speed and SIGNIFICANTLY reduces hand fatigue.
If you transcribe or type for a living, I definitely recommend a Kinesis Advantage contoured keyboard.
Oh, if there is a drawback, it’s that I suck at using normal keyboards now, such as the one on my laptop…..
Have a look at Dygma Raise and Dygma Defy 🙂
Hey there,
I appreciate your detailed comparison of these ergonomic keyboards. It’s clear that you’ve put a lot of thought and testing into finding the right fit for your needs. The insights you’ve shared about the Logitech Ergo, Kinesis Freestyle, and Kinesis Advantage are really helpful.
Personally, I’m still using a standard keyboard, but I’ve been considering switching to an ergonomic one because I do spend a lot of time typing. Your comments about the Kinesis Advantage 2 have piqued my interest, although I’m a bit hesitant about the learning curve you mentioned.
Could you provide more information on the wrist exercises you mentioned at the end of your video? I think that would be valuable information for anyone looking to improve their typing experience and overall wrist health.
Thanks for the informative video, and I look forward to hearing more from you!
Did it make nay difference if you typed while standing? Charles
Can my WPM include backspaces? 😅😂😂
Typing on a normal keyboard is like cycling. Just go for that Advantage 2, if you are lucky to have it!
What’s the consensus?
Sorry for saying this, but when you said, "I can’t find 0 on the keyboard" I thought you were a total idiot for that… but now I feel like an Idiot because I would have searched it too HAHHAHA
You’ve convinced me to use two separate keyboards as a cheap way to test out the feel of a split keyboard.
Podrías por favor indicarme cuál teclado ergonómico elegir entre Nulea y Protoarc?. Mil gracias.
that part with not knowing where, and later encountering the 0 was just too funny. lol
I see there are some microsoft ergononic keyboards that are quite popular. Have you tried any of those?
Don’t forget the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard and its modules!
Love this. I consider myself a KB enthusiast. I’ve also needed and used an ergo KB for the past 20 years since a nasty bout of tendonitis that (luckily) never expanded to RSI.
I’ve owned and tried the Kinesis Advantage as well as the Ergodox EZ and other split KBs. I find I can’t get used to ortholinear (columnar, technically) but then again I haven’t really put in the time to adapt to one. If I ever decided to REALLY put in the time to do so, I’m sure that a columnar would be ideal. Others have adapted to one over time and have really upped their WPS without any pain or discomfort. I also find I need a mechanical KB. I can’t adapt to or use those chicklet style keys very well. However, my fingers naturally fall easily onto mechanical keys.
Currently I use a mechanical split KB called the Mistel Barroco MD600 RGB. However, should I ever need to get another KB, I will probably go with the Dygma Raise. I’d recommend checking out Dygma. They’re a Spanish company that is relatively new to the ergo KB scene, but they are doing GREAT things, and have an awesome and informative YouTube channel!!! I love that company… BUT the products are not cheap. The Dygma Raise is a traditional split and staggered key design with mechanical switches, and would require no adapting to the board for myself. Also it is fully programmable and multi layered, and has several extra keys around the space bars that you can assign any function you want. Plus there is a full tenting kit available for the Raise.
Dygma also has a new board called the Defy that is built from the ground up as a columnar board with an insane number of thumb keys that are fully programmable. This would be a great option for those with some of the most serious of RSI issues that NEED a columnar design. Plus, the Defy has a tenting kit built into it! And it’s also wireless capable. Again, though, I’m not (yet?) willing to try to adapt to this kind of design, so the Raise would definitely be my choice at this time.
Check them out… tell Dominique that I sent you! (she has no idea who I am LOL)
https://www.youtube.com/@DygmaLab
I was interested to see you spoke of the Kinesis Advantage, but not the Maltron which the Advantage is partially based upon. In 1981 I began a home business wordprocessing academic documents, such as essays and theses, and after a couple of years I found I was getting pains in the wrists. I found a Maltron* and (wisely as it turned out) I opted to learn the Malt layout. Although I was also working as a temp legal secretary during the day using QWERTY, I found that it took about 6 weeks to achieve 15 wpm touch typing, yet I was (and still am) able to get back onto a QWERTY keyboard, but it is SUCH hard work. (I learned to type in 1966.) I find no clashing of "mental gears" when changing simply because the QWERTY keyboard is flat, whereas the Maltron is curved in 3D, so even blindfolded I know instantly which one I’m using.
I then trained as a court reporter (1990) where I was having to transcribe speech in real time, ie 150-180 wpm, for hours on end. Now in my retirement (age 73), I’m working as a volunteer for my local library transcribing oral history interviews. My hands and arms are still able to function normally.
Addressing some of your comments. Finding the home keys. The case of the Maltron has palm rests (not WRIST rests, which can put pressure on the carpal tunnel) and as soon as my palms are on the rests, my fingers naturally fall on the correct keys. The Malt layout is brilliant, and has been the recipient of many awards, especially in the late 1980s and early ’90s. To give an idea of how much hand movement the Maltron saves over the QWERTY, I downloaded a Scrabble word list (not dictionary), and for each layout I removed any word which contains a letter which is NOT on the "home keys". (On the Maltron the "E" is under the left thumb and is considered a home key.) For the QWERTY there were 198 words which could be typed without moving off the home keys, whereas the Malt layout 7639 words can be typed. (Which raises the question for me WHY is the semi-colon a HOME KEY?)
Using the Maltron the wrists are in a pretty straight line, so little or no pronation or ulnar deviation. Each individual key is tilted so that the relevant finger strikes at an efficient angle. The keys are all columnar so no side to side deviation. In basic terms typing is nothing more than extending and contracting the fingers, without any of the "hovering" of the hand found with QWERTY (using major muscle groups in the arm).
*It should be noted that my very first Maltron keyboard, which was for an Apple IIe computer is STILL in working order, but there’s no more computers for it to attach to. I keep it for spares (such as keyboard switches) but I’ve never had a failure of any sort. Probably the most inexpensive keyboard ever created.
To find more on the Maltron, Google Maltron UK. To find more on how efficient the Maltron is Google "High Speed Audio Transcription" (including the quote marks.)
I have been using the Kinesis Gaming keyboard for a while now (I like the tactile feedback) and have found my neck pain is a lot less and my shoulders feel better. One option if you are on a budget is to look at the refurbished models. They still have a good warranty and will save money.
It’s been while since I watched this guy’s video…what happened to him? He aged so much….what….
Didn’t know people bought keyboards FOR wrist pain. Might be just me though
Excellent video! Thank you for your time, sir!
Could you tell us about the chair that you’re using?
The biggest difference between those keyboards is that the advantage 2 is a columnar layout, the others are staggered. You might try looking at the Moonlander. I use a Lulu/Lily58 mostly, but just purchased the 360. It takes a bit of time to get used to columnar layouts for sure. I switched from Qwerty to Colemak at the same time. It is definitely used to it. I can switch back to my laptop keyboard easily enough, I am just not as fast.
It took me a long time to get used to the Advantage2, but I LOVE it now. There are things I don’t like about it, but it’s the best off-the-shelf option for me so far. I have tried a lot of keyboards. I can and do switch back and forth to a laptop without even thinking about it.